Talk:Democratic Party (United States)
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Q1: Why is the Democratic Party's ideology labelled on the political spectrum in the infobox?
A1: The consensus among editors is that the Democratic Party is a big tent party, encompassing ideologies including but not limited to centrism, social liberalism, progressivism, and social democracy. A consensus was reached that the Democratic Party is mainly center-left. You are free to contribute to such discussions if you have sources for something different. |
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Political position
[edit]Why don't the American political parties have "political position" as a category in their info boxes? Like where it would say "center-left"? Almost all wiki pages about political parties in other countries have this category. 150.108.240.134 (talk) 22:34, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
- It has been discussed before. Everyone has a different opinion on where various ideologies fit into the political spectrum. The articles already state party ideology in the info-box. There is no need to add where Wikipedia editors place these ideologies in the political spectrum. TFD (talk) 23:00, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
- Can you point me to these discussions? I am having trouble finding them and I don't think this is a particularly strong argument. American political parties should not get special treatment simply because a lot of editors have opinions on it - but my mind is open. Carlp941 (talk) 16:32, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
- nevermind - found em. I still don't buy the arguments posed, I find them quite off base. Plenty of big tent parties that have a similar character to the Democrats and Republicans have their political positions labeled.
- but I can accept that there is no consensus for change for now. I found the attempts at change to be poorly thought out as well. I think people can get "center left" from the ideologies for the democrats and can get "right wing" from the GOP ideologies. Carlp941 (talk) 16:42, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
- Can you name any other parties that have no control over membership or who their members nominate for office? In some states, such as Vermont, the party has no membership at all. Can you name any other parties that don't have members? Also, neither party has a statement of ideology. Also, primary elections run by government is fairly uncommon. TFD (talk) 16:57, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
- That is a non-sequitor. Unique party structures do not do away with a political position. Did the European Greens temporarily surrender their ideology by having open primaries for the 2013 European parliament elections? Did the French Socialists suddenly become non ideological because they started to hold open primaries in 2012? Of course not. Every political party has a unique context - they are still ideological and have a place on the political spectrum. Carlp941 (talk) 17:21, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
- Could someone revert the edit saying that the Dems are Centre-left? They have so many diverse factions and their economic policy certainly isn't Centre-left so this is inaccurate 101.119.138.41 (talk) 07:35, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
- I would definitely agree. There are a number of sources noting that the party has notable centrist[1][2][3] and conservative/right-leaning[4][5] factions. While I don't deny that there are certainly some "social justice warrior" progressives in the party, they've become a big tent (even "conservative") party of anyone supportive of the constitutional status quo as opposed to the radical right (says The Atlantic[6]). If we're going to put a political position in at all, it should be "big tent" or "center" (since that's where the party "establishment" mostly is) with a note that the party has also has a substantial left-leaning faction and a somewhat smaller right-leaning faction. PtolemyXV (talk) 05:53, 19 July 2024 (UTC) PtolemyXV (talk) 05:53, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
- I would say the most accurate definition would be centre left to centre right. This would include members such as the squad, who fit the profile of centre-left social democrats in many countries, as well as moderate Democrats who are most akin to centre right politicians in peer countries. 184.145.1.225 (talk) 03:58, 11 August 2024 (UTC)
- Who are these moderate Democrats akin to centre-right politicians? AusLondonder (talk) 01:24, 6 October 2024 (UTC)
- Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. TFD (talk) 02:29, 6 October 2024 (UTC)
- There's no way Obama, Biden or Harris would be members of the Conservative Party (UK), the Liberal Party of Australia, The Republicans (France) or the Christian Democratic Union of Germany. I'd argue they're all to the left of parties such as the Australian Labor Party or the Labour Party (UK). Both those two parties oppose legalisation of cannabis while the Australian Labor Party has supported tax cuts for the rich, a questionable policy of turning back migrant boats on the open seas and indefinite detention of asylum seekers. The Australian Labor Party was in government opposing same-sex marriage while Obama and Biden were supporting it. AusLondonder (talk) 04:56, 6 October 2024 (UTC)
- There has been a rightward drift in the ALP and UK Labour Party which might make them more acceptable to establishment Democrats. However, they could find Malcolm Turnbull's LIberals, Angela Merkel's CDU or One Nation Tories to be too far left. In France,they definitely would be with Macron, rather than the Socialists and in the past would have supported people like Sarkozy. Ideologically, they would have aligned more with the LIberal Democrats in the UK or the Free Democrats in Germany before they moved to the right. Even today, they are closer to the liberal Friedrich Naumann Foundation than the social democratic Friedrich Ebert Foundation. And in Canada, they would more likely be found in the Liberal Party than the New Democratic Party.
- The two party system where it exists forces people like them to chose between a party organized to oppose capitalism and one organized to fight against equality. TFD (talk) 15:37, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
- There's no way Obama, Biden or Harris would be members of the Conservative Party (UK), the Liberal Party of Australia, The Republicans (France) or the Christian Democratic Union of Germany. I'd argue they're all to the left of parties such as the Australian Labor Party or the Labour Party (UK). Both those two parties oppose legalisation of cannabis while the Australian Labor Party has supported tax cuts for the rich, a questionable policy of turning back migrant boats on the open seas and indefinite detention of asylum seekers. The Australian Labor Party was in government opposing same-sex marriage while Obama and Biden were supporting it. AusLondonder (talk) 04:56, 6 October 2024 (UTC)
- Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. TFD (talk) 02:29, 6 October 2024 (UTC)
- Who are these moderate Democrats akin to centre-right politicians? AusLondonder (talk) 01:24, 6 October 2024 (UTC)
- Could someone revert the edit saying that the Dems are Centre-left? They have so many diverse factions and their economic policy certainly isn't Centre-left so this is inaccurate 101.119.138.41 (talk) 07:35, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
- That is a non-sequitor. Unique party structures do not do away with a political position. Did the European Greens temporarily surrender their ideology by having open primaries for the 2013 European parliament elections? Did the French Socialists suddenly become non ideological because they started to hold open primaries in 2012? Of course not. Every political party has a unique context - they are still ideological and have a place on the political spectrum. Carlp941 (talk) 17:21, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
- Can you name any other parties that have no control over membership or who their members nominate for office? In some states, such as Vermont, the party has no membership at all. Can you name any other parties that don't have members? Also, neither party has a statement of ideology. Also, primary elections run by government is fairly uncommon. TFD (talk) 16:57, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
- Can you point me to these discussions? I am having trouble finding them and I don't think this is a particularly strong argument. American political parties should not get special treatment simply because a lot of editors have opinions on it - but my mind is open. Carlp941 (talk) 16:32, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
- The Demos are a centrist party, end of. They are nowhere near left leaning bar a few social policies Kdf122 (talk) 20:06, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
- Correction, a center-right party. 99.45.119.160 (talk) 21:19, 7 March 2025 (UTC)
Preliminary plot of Liberalism vs. Education.
[edit]
The R^2 value was 0.6, there is a clear uptrend, and while there are some outliers, this does confirm what I was looking for. Educational attainment is strongly correlated with liberal ideological identification. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 03:00, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
New Sources to Look Into
[edit]Link: https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/democrats-economy-election-working-class/ (Why Democrats Are Losing Americans Without a College Degree—and How to Win Them Back) JohnAdams1800 (talk) 04:08, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
Link: https://www.bls.gov/emp/tables/education-summary.htm (Employment Projections)
The key takeaways that I have are that: less than 30% of jobs require a Bachelor's degree or higher; there are some sources suggesting that the Democratic Party has supported the party's increasing reliance on voters with college degrees, at the expense of voters without college degrees (i.e. Barrack Obama and Bill Clinton).
Trump vs. Income and Harris vs. Income Plots
[edit]

JohnAdams1800 (talk) 16:13, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
Trump vs. Education and Harris vs. Education Plots
[edit]

JohnAdams1800 (talk) 16:40, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
Planks of the Democratic Party's Platform
[edit]Are redundancies necessary? Keep this, but the reality is I don't know if we need these when a brief summary would do.
On economic issues, it favors universal healthcare coverage, universal child care, paid sick leave, corporate governance reform, and supporting unions.[7][8][9][10]
- Economic policy
- Expand Social Security and safety-net programs.[11]
- Increase the capital gains tax rate to 39.6% for taxpayers with annual income above $1 million.[12]
- Cut taxes for the working and middle classes as well as small businesses.[13]
- Change tax rules to discourage shipping jobs overseas.[13]
- Increase federal and state minimum wages.[14]
- Modernize and expand access to public education and provide universal preschool education.[15]
- Support the goal of universal health care through a public health insurance option or expanding Medicare/Medicaid.[16]
- Increase investments in infrastructure development[17] as well as scientific and technological research.[18]
- Offer tax credits to make clean energy more accessible for consumers and increase domestic production of clean energy.[19]
- Uphold labor protections and the right to unionize.[20][21]
- Reform the student loan system and allow for refinancing student loans.[22]
- Make college more affordable.[14][23]
- Mandate equal pay for equal work regardless of gender, race, or ethnicity.[24]
- Social policy
- Decriminalize or legalize marijuana.[14]
- Uphold network neutrality.[25]
- Implement campaign finance reform.[26]
- Uphold voting rights and easy access to voting.[27][28]
- Support same-sex marriage and ban conversion therapy.[14]
- Allow legal access to abortions and women's reproductive health care.[17]
- Reform the immigration system and allow for a pathway to citizenship.[17]
- Expand background checks and reduce access to assault weapons to address gun violence.[17]
- Improve privacy laws and curtail government surveillance.[17]
- Oppose torture.[29][30]
- Abolish capital punishment.[31]
- Recognize and defend Internet freedom worldwide.[13]
JohnAdams1800 (talk) 04:19, 1 January 2025 (UTC)
References
- ^ Hood, John (December 6, 2006). "Meet the New House Centrists". National Review.
- ^ "United House Democrats Return to Squabbling Ways". National Journal. Retrieved October 14, 2018.
- ^ Kesselman, Donna. "Fact check US: Is it true that 'In a country other than the US, Joe Biden would not be in the same party as the Democratic left'?". The Conversation. Retrieved 19 July 2024.
- ^ "The US Presidential Election 2020: Last Lap Reflections". The Political Compass. Pace News Ltd. Retrieved 19 July 2024.
- ^ Bacon, Perry. "The Six Wings Of The Democratic Party". Five Thirty Eight. Retrieved 19 July 2024.
- ^ Graham, David. "The Democrats Are Now America's Conservative Party". The Atlantic. The Atlantic. Retrieved 19 July 2024.
- ^ Cite error: The named reference
Miranda Ollstein-2022
was invoked but never defined (see the help page). - ^ Cite error: The named reference
Goodnough-2019
was invoked but never defined (see the help page). - ^ Cite error: The named reference
jlevy
was invoked but never defined (see the help page). - ^ Cite error: The named reference
U.S. Department of State
was invoked but never defined (see the help page). - ^ Sargent, Greg (March 13, 2014). "Push to expand Social Security (not cut it) gets another boost". The Washington Post. Archived from the original on July 16, 2017. Retrieved August 22, 2017.
- ^ Iacurci, Greg (June 21, 2021). "Biden's top tax rate on capital gains, dividends would be among highest in developed world". CNBC. Archived from the original on November 23, 2022. Retrieved November 23, 2022.
- ^ a b c "On The Issues : Every Issue – Every Politician". Ontheissues.org. Archived from the original on May 4, 2016. Retrieved January 19, 2015.
- ^ a b c d Bacon, Perry Jr. (May 28, 2019). "What Republicans And Democrats Are Doing In The States Where They Have Total Power". FiveThirtyEight. Archived from the original on June 5, 2019. Retrieved June 5, 2019.
- ^ "Education". Democrats.org. Archived from the original on April 30, 2016. Retrieved May 29, 2014.
- ^ "Health Care". Democrats.org. Archived from the original on May 30, 2014. Retrieved May 29, 2014.
- ^ a b c d e Cite error: The named reference
2016platform
was invoked but never defined (see the help page). - ^ "Science & Technology". Democrats.org. Archived from the original on June 26, 2014. Retrieved May 29, 2014.
- ^ Isaac-Thomas, Bella (August 11, 2022). "What the Inflation Reduction Act does for green energy". PBS. Archived from the original on November 22, 2022. Retrieved November 23, 2022.
- ^ "THE ALLIANCE OF U.S. LABOR UNIONS AND THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY" (PDF). Scholarsstrategynetwork.org. Archived (PDF) from the original on March 4, 2016. Retrieved January 19, 2015.
- ^ "Worker Rights". Archived from the original on August 21, 2014.
- ^ Khalid, Asma (June 9, 2014). "Obama Endorses Sen. Warren's Student Loan Refinancing Bill". wbur. Archived from the original on June 11, 2016. Retrieved June 11, 2014.
- ^ Green, Erica (October 15, 2019). "House Democrats Unveil Plan to Make College More Affordable". The New York Times. Archived from the original on March 21, 2020. Retrieved March 21, 2020.
- ^ "Democrats highlight equal pay in political push". CNN. April 7, 2014. Archived from the original on June 10, 2016. Retrieved September 1, 2014.
- ^ Wyatt, Edward (November 10, 2014). "Obama Net Neutrality". The New York Times. Archived from the original on April 27, 2019. Retrieved January 19, 2015.
- ^ "Democratic Party on Government Reform". Ontheissues.org. Archived from the original on April 30, 2016. Retrieved January 19, 2015.
- ^ "A Call for Election Reform, Beginning with New York". The Huffington Post. June 15, 2013. Archived from the original on March 24, 2019. Retrieved December 6, 2019.
- ^ "Voting Rights". Democrats.org. Archived from the original on February 9, 2014. Retrieved February 2, 2014.
- ^ "For Torture and Surveillance Commission via H.R. 104, Target The Congressional Progressive Caucus". Irregular Times. Archived from the original on May 29, 2014. Retrieved May 29, 2014.
- ^ "Democratic Party on Crime". Ontheissues.org. Archived from the original on April 29, 2016. Retrieved January 19, 2015.
- ^ "Protecting Communities and Building Trust by Reforming Our Criminal Justice System". Democrats. Archived from the original on November 22, 2021. Retrieved November 30, 2021.
International affiliation
[edit]Did it leave the Progressive Alliance? Nowhere to be found on that page or this, but still shown as a member on the map on that page. Even if it did leave, at least past membership ought to be mentioned. 2402:8100:3956:7C1F:FCD0:1B21:123F:A48C (talk) 14:48, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
- They were never part of it. Toa Nidhiki05 15:46, 18 January 2025 (UTC)
- https://progressive-alliance.info/parties-organisations/. It is listed as a member Johnymin (talk) 16:14, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
- The Progressive Alliance lists any party that had a member or two show up to a meeting as an affiliate. This has been discussed numerous times before - the party is not affiliated with this organization. Toa Nidhiki05 16:16, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
- Who are the members. Johnymin (talk) 16:18, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
- https://alliance-progressiste.info/participants-3/ Johnymin (talk) 16:19, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
- The Progressive Alliance doesn't have members. It claims participants. Toa Nidhiki05 16:25, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
- It is listed as participant, but you are saying that this is because some politicians took part in it, who are this politicians Johnymin (talk) 16:29, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
- So they are participants Johnymin (talk) 16:30, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
- Go to the links, amd see that it is listed, the party Johnymin (talk) 16:32, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
- Where was discussed Johnymin (talk) 16:37, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
- Howard Dean attended the first meeting as a private citizen, but no other Americans have ever attended. TFD (talk) 00:33, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
- Go to the links, amd see that it is listed, the party Johnymin (talk) 16:32, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
- The Progressive Alliance doesn't have members. It claims participants. Toa Nidhiki05 16:25, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
- https://alliance-progressiste.info/participants-3/ Johnymin (talk) 16:19, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
- Who are the members. Johnymin (talk) 16:18, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
- The Progressive Alliance lists any party that had a member or two show up to a meeting as an affiliate. This has been discussed numerous times before - the party is not affiliated with this organization. Toa Nidhiki05 16:16, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
- https://progressive-alliance.info/parties-organisations/. It is listed as a member Johnymin (talk) 16:14, 22 January 2025 (UTC)
Racial Voting Demographics
[edit]The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I uploaded the maps here as a backup.
Commentary: To understand American politics requires understanding the White vote. Split Ticket (website) has done some of the best electoral analysis, including modeling the White vote by state and county (Biden or Trump). It's worth noting that in many states, Democrats don't win the White vote in a single county or just one county.
Harris won every state where Biden won the White vote. But Harris only won one state where Biden lost the White vote, namely Virginia. Also Wisconsin was the closest state because Wisconsin's White votes are only slightly Republican.
I'm not going to do a county-level analysis, but it appears the map largely stands for Harris' performance outside of majority-Black counties. There are some majority-White counties that Democrats can win without winning White voters, like say Clark County in Nevada. But fundamentally, the White vote is a major constraint on the Democratic Party's performance.
This map really does explain why Democrats are constrained to their coalition and a minority of counties in the country. Fundamentally, the Democratic Party's fundamental problem is that it needs to win enough White voters to win elections. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 02:09, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
- What part of WP:NOTAFORUM are you missing? --jpgordon𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇 15:14, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
- This is a place to store content as a draft space, not a forum, before I incorporate it into the article.
- It takes multiple iterations, deliberation, and sourcing before I write new content.
- My goal is to understand both parties' voter demographics at a granular level. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 16:27, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
- You're doing original research right in front of us. --jpgordon𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇 16:45, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
- I didn't make the maps. I'm paraphrasing the content from the source that made the maps. I look for sources to understand voter demographics.
- It's not easy to write high quality content. One of my best articles is Solid South, on the politics of the Southern United States. It took me over a year to write about half of that article. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 18:44, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
- You're doing original research right in front of us. --jpgordon𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇 16:45, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
- This is a place to store content as a draft space, not a forum, before I incorporate it into the article.
- "Harris won every state where Biden won the White vote" is OR because you need to compare a map {or list) showing states where Biden won the white vote and another map showing states Harris won. See Synthesis of published material: "Do not combine material from multiple sources to state or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by any of the sources."
- It's also implicit OR because you are implying a causal rather than coincidental connection between the two things. And it violates neutrality, because you would be including information without establishing its significance in reliable secondary sources.
- ~~~~ TFD (talk) 20:11, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
- It's easy to verify that Harris lost the White vote in all 7 seven swing states that she lost, using exit polls from CNN and Fox News. And Wisconsin was Harris' best swing state in terms of the White vote, just like the map indicated.
- Democrats don't just lose White voters in the South (which they do), they lose them in swing states. If Harris won the White vote, she won the state.
- I actually made a table. The map is slightly off, given Harris did worse than Biden, but is broadly accurate. There wasn't a single state where Harris won or tied with the White vote and lost. I couldn't find the percentages for DC, but given Harris won 90% of the vote in DC, I can assume it's very high.
- Links: https://www.cnn.com/election/2024/exit-polls/national-results/general/president/6 and https://www.foxnews.com/elections/2024/general-results/voter-analysis JohnAdams1800 (talk) 20:52, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
- It doesn't matter if your argument is good or bad, it's still under Wikipedia:No original research. Please read and understand that policy. BTW, Fox News is not a reliable source for politics. Full disclosure, I voted against that decision, but everyone is bound to follow it until changed and you are wasting our time by introducing unacceptable sources. TFD (talk) 04:40, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
- Links: https://www.cnn.com/election/2024/exit-polls/national-results/general/president/6 and https://www.foxnews.com/elections/2024/general-results/voter-analysis JohnAdams1800 (talk) 20:52, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
White vote table
[edit]The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I made a table, given the requirement for no original research. This just uses Fox News exit polls. I was slightly off about which states Harris lost or tied with the White vote, but the map is broadly accurate.
The percentages in the Deep South are mind-blowing, and very close to the numbers for African Americans for Democrats.
White vote in each State | Trump (%) | Harris (%) |
---|---|---|
Alabama | 80 | 19 |
Alaska | 57 | 39 |
Arizona | 55 | 44 |
Arkansas | 70 | 28 |
California | 42 | 55 |
Colorado | 44 | 53 |
Connecticut | 45 | 53 |
Delaware | 48 | 50 |
Florida | 64 | 36 |
Georgia | 70 | 29 |
Hawaii | 36 | 63 |
Idaho | 67 | 30 |
Illinois | 51 | 48 |
Indiana | 63 | 35 |
Iowa | 57 | 42 |
Kansas | 59 | 39 |
Kentucky | 67 | 32 |
Louisiana | 79 | 20 |
Maine | 46 | 52 |
Maryland | 47 | 50 |
Massachusetts | 38 | 60 |
Michigan | 55 | 43 |
Minnesota | 48 | 50 |
Mississippi | 82 | 17 |
Missouri | 63 | 36 |
Montana | 58 | 39 |
Nebraska | 62 | 37 |
Nevada | 56 | 42 |
New Hampshire | 48 | 51 |
New Jersey | 52 | 47 |
New Mexico | 49 | 49 |
New York | 50 | 50 |
North Carolina | 63 | 36 |
North Dakota | 68 | 31 |
Ohio | 59 | 40 |
Oklahoma | 68 | 31 |
Oregon | 42 | 55 |
Pennsylvania | 54 | 45 |
Rhode Island | 43 | 55 |
South Carolina | 73 | 26 |
South Dakota | 64 | 33 |
Tennessee | 72 | 27 |
Texas | 65 | 34 |
Utah | 60 | 37 |
Vermont | 33 | 64 |
Virginia | 54 | 44 |
Washington | 41 | 56 |
West Virginia | 71 | 27 |
Wisconsin | 52 | 47 |
Wyoming | 73 | 26 |
District of Columbia | ||
Country as a whole | 56 | 42 |
JohnAdams1800 (talk) 21:52, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
- What's the importance behind spitting votes along presumed racial lines. People don't always vote based on their racial identity. GoodDay (talk) 21:56, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
- I agree with you for the most part, but I don't know how else to explain how Whites vote in the Deep South or even the Southern United States in general except for racial polarization. People often think it's just that African Americans are extremely Democratic, but racial polarization cuts both ways. White Southerners are extremely Republican, sometimes nearly as much as African Americans are Democratic.
- White voters in Mississippi, Alabama, and Louisiana vote around 80% Republican. Even in Georgia and South Carolina, Whites vote more than 70% Republican.
- Georgia and North Carolina are both considered swing states. But Whites in Georgia vote on par with Whites in Wyoming, Idaho, and North Dakota which are all considered deep red states. Whites in North Carolina vote more Republican than Whites in Kansas, Montana, and Nebraska.
- Virginia is interesting, because its Whites vote like those in swing states, but because it's 20% Black, is a blue state.
- There wasn't one state Kamala Harris lost where she won or tied the White vote, or where Joe Biden won the White vote. There were a handful of states Trump lost despite winning the White vote.JohnAdams1800 (talk) 23:17, 31 January 2025 (UTC)
- We don't care what your analysis or your opinion here is. If you're interested in this stuff, and want it included in the article, find a reliable source making the arguments you are making and the conclusions you are drawing, and it will be of some value to Wikipedia. Please stop with the original research here. --jpgordon𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇 06:33, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
- I have included plenty of content about White voters, from the linked sources. I made the table to verify the map's accuracy, and the map was almost entirely accurate for 2024 as well.
- Link: https://split-ticket.org/2023/03/24/where-do-democrats-win-white-voters/ and https://split-ticket.org/2022/01/03/the-white-vote-and-educational-polarization/ JohnAdams1800 (talk) 15:51, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
- We don't care what your analysis or your opinion here is. If you're interested in this stuff, and want it included in the article, find a reliable source making the arguments you are making and the conclusions you are drawing, and it will be of some value to Wikipedia. Please stop with the original research here. --jpgordon𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇 06:33, 1 February 2025 (UTC)
- I agree with you for the most part, but I don't know how else to explain how Whites vote in the Deep South or even the Southern United States in general except for racial polarization. People often think it's just that African Americans are extremely Democratic, but racial polarization cuts both ways. White Southerners are extremely Republican, sometimes nearly as much as African Americans are Democratic.
Sources explaining why the progressive faction has declined
[edit]The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
When I refer to the "progressive faction," I mean the faction led by the likes of Bernie Sanders, the the Squad, the Congressional Progressive Caucus, etc.
Sources Title: Is This the End of the White Working-Class Democrat? Links: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/18/us/politics/democrats-white-working-class-harris.html
Title: How culture trumps economic class as the new political fault line Links: https://www.natesilver.net/p/how-culture-trumps-economic-class
Title: The big political shift that explains the 2024 election; Progressives felt they were gaining. Now they’re on the defensive. Link: https://www.vox.com/2024-elections/378644/progressives-left-backlash-retreat-kamala-harris-pivot-center
Title: GOP Holds Edge in Party Affiliation for Third Straight Year Link: https://news.gallup.com/poll/655157/gop-holds-edge-party-affiliation-third-straight-year.aspx
General explanation: There are several fundamental problems that are causing the progressive faction to be in decline. Two of the biggest are the 2021-2023 inflation surge and the Republican edge in party identification.
- This discredited Biden's economic policies and along with other sources, show how the United States is not looking or swayed by progressivism. This is on most, but not all, economic and social issues.
The first two sources explain how income has very little to do with voting. It's educational attainment among White voters, not income, that dictates how they vote. White voter income was actually negatively correlated with voting for Harris.
As another aside from a Gallup source before the 2024 presidential election.
- "Close to half of voters, 48%, say Trump’s political views are “too conservative,” while a statistically equivalent 51% call Harris “too liberal.” Most others see each as about right."
Link: https://news.gallup.com/poll/651692/voters-choice-character-leadership-skill.aspx
Summary from the sources In the aftermath of Harris' defeat to Trump, the sources say that the progressive movement has declined and will likely decline further during Trump's second term. The RS show that the Democratic Party is viewed less favorably than the Republican Party, and that the Democratic Party is engaged in soul-searching and shifting to the center, not further left.
The evidence, per the RS, is that the United States electorate doesn't want and won't elect progressive candidates nationally. It certainly might in some states or congressional elections.
Moreover, it appears that the Democratic Party's economic policies are viewed unfavorably by low-income voters, particularly low-income White voters. Harris underperformed the most with low-income voters in 2024, while over performing with high-income voters, likely due to inflation. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 03:52, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
- @The Four Deuces
- Section on the Democratic Party no longer being the party of the low-income
- We see the same patterns in other heavily white, low-income counties too. By our math, Democrats lost the poorest majority-white counties by about 30 points in 2012, but by a staggering 50 points in 2024.
- But it’s not just the white working class that has drifted to the right; working-class voters of color have, too, and especially since 2016. According to our county-level analysis, voters in majority-minority counties with a median household income between $60,000 and $70,000 shifted from voting for Clinton by an average of 1 point in 2016 to voting for Trump by 10 points in 2024. And from 2012 to 2016, they had already moved 5 points right. In fact, from 2012 to 2016, the only majority-minority counties where Democrats gained ground were in places where the median household income was above $98,000 per year — or the top 4 percent of U.S. counties. That includes places as rich and diverse as Manhattan, San Diego and Boulder, Colorado.
- This all raises questions about Democrats’ messaging about the economy, or maybe suggests that the type of people they hypothesize would be helped most by their policies — such as wealth redistribution from progressive and corporate taxation and federal subsidies for companies that invest in underdeveloped areas, especially when it comes to manufacturing — are not as responsive as the party hoped to the type of so-called policy “deliverism” that the Obama and Biden administrations pursued. In a more dire framing for Democrats: If a party that tells itself it stands for working-class voters is systematically losing support with those people, something has gone terribly wrong for them.
- Link: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2024-election-swings/ JohnAdams1800 (talk) 04:13, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
- It does not say the Democratic Party is no longer the party of the low-income, that's a conclusion you have come to, which is OR. As you know the bottom quintile votes Democratic while the top 1% vote Republican? How do you explain that? TFD (talk) 04:42, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
- JohnAdams1800 needs a platform for his analysis. This certainly isn't that. --jpgordon𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇 04:50, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
- @The Four Deuces
- This is about the electorate as a whole. Also there are no sharp gaps that I know of about the bottom top 20% and the top 1% in the electorate as a whole with respect to the electorate as a whole. Where do you keep getting this exact benchmark--do you have RS for this?
- I've edited Social class in the United States quite a bit FWIW, and even among RS that debate social class, it's tough to draw lines for social class. One RS considers social class more of a spectrum or gradient.
- I have not changed, nor am I planned to change, any descriptions of the Republican Party's economic policies as favoring the affluent. But what I am saying is that the Democratic Party's economic policies are not attracting low-income voters, particularly low-income Whites but also some low-income racial minorities. Income among Whites was negatively correlated to support for Harris in 2024. Among the electorate as a whole, there was a bit of income polarization, with Harris still doing better among the high-income than the low-income.
- There are essentially no divides by income or education among African Americans, who supported Harris 86-13%. The link below is more than 10 years old, but White high school dropouts were on average richer than Black college graduates per the source.
- We can certainly say that the Democratic Party is the part of racial and sexual minorities. Harris got 86% of the vote from Black (11% of voters) and LGBT voters (8% of voters). But the RS here present clear evidence that the Democratic Party is no longer the party of the low-income.
- Link: https://www.vox.com/2014/9/24/6840037/white-high-school-dropouts-have-more-wealth-than-black-and-hispanic
- Side-note: If you want my personal views for full disclosure, I support the Democratic Party's economic and social policies for the most part and voted for Kamala Harris in 2024. I'm also entirely unrepresentative of the average American voter, as a 21-year old Asian American male who is a PhD student in Statistics at the UIUC.
- I am an academic source and researcher, though I don't want to publish papers just for the sake of having myself-RS as Wikipedia sources. My Master's thesis that I'm working on, earned on my way to a PhD, is on the Solid South. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 13:46, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
- See NBC News: 50% of households in 10 key states earning under $30,000 voted for Harris, compared with 46% for Trump.[1] How do you explain this? TFD (talk) 14:12, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
- See: 2024 United States presidential election#Exit poll 2
- Harris did win those making under $30,000 50-46, I agree. But she also won those making $100,000–199,999 51-46 and those taking over $200,000 52-46. For the electorate as a whole, per that exit poll, it's a modest U-shape and not much income polarization--these are single-digit margins for all income categories. Harris did best among the highest-income voters.
- For Whites, it's educational attainment or even reverse income-polarization. For African Americans, it's just Democratic loyalty.
- For other races, like Hispanics and Asians, it's harder to tell because it varies by state and region and is fairly competitive. Both groups did swing to Trump relative to 2020.
- I am not disputing that the Democratic Party's economic policies obviously help the low-income than the Republican Party. I am deeply skeptical however, given all the RS I've pored over, that the Democratic Party is a party of the low-income, "working class," labor movement, etc. The Democratic Party instead appears to be some utterly sui generis liberal party that is based around educational attainment, African Americans, the urban-rural divide, and in opposition to the "White married Christian heteronormative" persona.
- The Democratic Party is extremely strong among African Americans. In many Southern states, the Democratic Party's support is almost entirely just African Americans, doing extremely poorly among Whites.
- The Democratic Party improves its vote share as voter educational attainment increases.
- The Democratic Party improves its vote share for voters who are not White, are unmarried, aren't Christian, and are LGBT.
- The Democratic Party improves its vote share as population density increases.
- The Democratic Party improves its vote share if voters aren't Christian.
- The Democratic Party doesn't necessarily improve its vote share as income increases. Its vote share in all income categories is extremely competitive. There is no general decrease or increase as income changes. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 14:39, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
- Again, you appear to be using these talkpages as though they were sandboxes. GoodDay (talk) 15:18, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
- Here I'm discussing with @The Four Deuces. We're debating whether the Democratic Party should be considered the party of the low-income. Because in the wake of the Democratic Party's defeat in 2024, along with voter demographics and analysis done by RS, that appears to be in doubt.
- I have been writing and planning content to write on the Democratic Party's article. The Democratic party has also significantly changed during the Trump era. Fundamentally, it appears to have lost its identity and ability to convince voters that it is the party of the low-income/"working class." It has lost much of its former base, both geographically and demographically.
- I've stopped using the Republican Party's talk page as a sandbox, or disrupting those discussions with unnecessary tangents or original research. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 15:24, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
- Actually, we were discussing whether there was a positive or negative correlation between income and voting Democratic. (We both accept that additional drivers exist.)
- Anyway, unless you are able to suggest edits backed up by sources that make the same conclusions you do, there is nothing to discuss.. TFD (talk) 15:32, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
- Again, you appear to be using these talkpages as though they were sandboxes. GoodDay (talk) 15:18, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
- It does not say the Democratic Party is no longer the party of the low-income, that's a conclusion you have come to, which is OR. As you know the bottom quintile votes Democratic while the top 1% vote Republican? How do you explain that? TFD (talk) 04:42, 11 February 2025 (UTC)
Link drop. Not a discussion, just to not forget about this.
[edit]Link: https://news.gallup.com/poll/656636/democrats-favor-party-moderation-past.aspx?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=o_social&utm_term=gallup&utm_campaign=x-news-partyid_021325 JohnAdams1800 (talk) 19:32, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
- This should be put into your sandbox. GoodDay (talk) 19:38, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
- @GoodDay I'm not starting a discussion. This link is just a Gallup poll about how Democratic voters want their party to change, by moderating on various issues. I've been looking for sources that the progressive faction of the Democratic Party has lost much of its influence since Trump won a second term in 2024. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 20:22, 13 February 2025 (UTC)
Democratic Party is at Lowest Polling Numbers Ever
[edit]According to the February 2025 Harvard CAPS/Harris Poll support for the Democratic Party is at it's lowest point ever at 38% approval rating. [1] The Democratic party received low marks from 86 percent of Republicans, a whopping 70 percent of Independents, and 33 percent of their fellow Democrats. Mark Penn, Co-Director of the Harvard CAPS / Harris poll, summarized the findings: “People are taking a generally positive wait-and-see attitude for Trump but have really reassessed their attitudes toward Biden, Harris, and the Democrats, taking a much harsher, more negative attitude,”
Looking for consensus to add this to article.2603:8080:3EF0:7930:CC42:6CE6:FCD2:43A1 (talk) 07:20, 25 February 2025 (UTC)
- It says, "lowest approval rating since at least March 2018." IOW they are at their lowest approval rating since the last time they were out of office, which isn't particularly significant. TFD (talk) 18:38, 25 February 2025 (UTC)
- Oppose including such content. Public opinion can change quickly. In 2009, Republicans had just 40 Senate seats and 178 U.S. House seats, and Obama had won 365-173. Two years later, in the 2010 United States House of Representatives elections, the Republicans won 242 U.S. House seats. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 00:03, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
- I'm on the fence at this point, as it may be too soon to see if this gets picked up by other sources. I lean towards JohnAdams1800's view, but let's give it time to see if this is a trend among sources, or closer to WP:RECENT. Cheers. DN (talk) 00:14, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
- Per the highly respected, nonpartisan The Cook Political Report, economic sentiment is declining in the United States.
- I don't claim to accurately predict the future. But if you want my personal opinion, given Trump's falling approval ratings and underlying economic weakness (i.e. stock market, consumer sentiment, Trump's tariffs, etc.) I predict Democratic gains in the 2025 and 2026 elections.
- I could certainly be wrong of course. But American politics these days are much closer to the Gilded Age (1876-1896 roughly), with 1-term presidencies and rapidly shifting and thin congressional majorities. See the Prospect link, on how neither party has proven capable of winning consistent majorities.
- Link: https://www.cookpolitical.com/analysis/national/national-politics/flashing-yellow-lights-economy-should-worry-republicans
- Link: https://prospect.org/politics/2024-12-02-what-is-democratic-party/ JohnAdams1800 (talk) 23:14, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
- I'm on the fence at this point, as it may be too soon to see if this gets picked up by other sources. I lean towards JohnAdams1800's view, but let's give it time to see if this is a trend among sources, or closer to WP:RECENT. Cheers. DN (talk) 00:14, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
Research paper on women and abortion; married women vote Republican
[edit]This is a depository of sources that I will incorporate. I found a paper on the intersection of race and gender, with Black women being both the strongest feminists and having the highest support for and rates of abortion.
Title: Struggling to Attract Single Women? So are Republicans; Title: Gender linked fate explains lower legal abortion support among white married women
Link: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6786754/#pone.0223271.s008 Link: https://split-ticket.org/2022/11/22/struggling-to-attract-single-women-so-are-republicans/
Link: https://bedbible.com/abortion-statistics/
- 4 out of 10 abortions were on black women; they are just 12-14% of all women.
I say this because Black women gave Harris the Assad level of 92-7% support. African Americans strongly support legal abortion, as can be seen from exit polling and abortion referenda. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 05:33, 5 March 2025 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 9 March 2025
[edit]![]() | This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Change Party denomination over Right and Left 2804:14D:A087:8BB2:C537:571F:F4A3:B96B (talk) 15:39, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
- Can you be more specific? 331dot (talk) 16:01, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. PianoDan (talk) 18:10, 10 March 2025 (UTC)
Storing this photo for the potential future, for expected dissents from the three.
[edit]Three Musketeers (Supreme Court)
I can't predict the future, but these three remind me of the "Three Musketeers" from the time of FDR. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 03:30, 11 March 2025 (UTC)
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